Tag Archives: agnostic

What makes someone an Agnostic and not an Atheist?

All,

I received this comment in a previous post, and thought it might lead to clarifying a distinction about atheists and agnostics.

Here’s the note:

If you want to talk to atheists in Texas, go to Austin. Specifically the Atheist Community of Austin, and their cable access show “The Atheist Experience” or their podcast “The Non-Prophets”. (And no, they aren’t paying me to advertise.)

All I can say, and someone may already have said it, is that your definition of ‘atheist’ is wrong. All an atheist is is someone who doesn’t believe in a god or gods.

Certainly someone who asserted that there absolutely was no god would fit the definition of an atheist. But the definition of atheist isn’t so specific as to apply only to those people.

Here’s my response:

morsecOde,

You are sort of making my point – it is about ‘belief’.

I think I’ve been fair in my postings [see My Favorite Conversation (ever) With an Atheist] about the distinctions in language on the term, but I’ll ponder the following critique:

There is, unfortunately, some disagreement about the definition of atheism. It is interesting to note that most of that disagreement comes from theists — atheists themselves tend to agree on what atheism means. Christians in particular dispute the definition used by atheists and insist that atheism means something very different.

The broader, and more common, understanding of atheism among atheists is quite simply “not believing in any gods.” No claims or denials are made — an atheist is just a person who does not happen to be a theist. Sometimes this broader understanding is called “weak” or “implicit” atheism. Most good, complete dictionaries readily support this.

There also exists a narrower sort of atheism, sometimes called “strong” or “explicit” atheism. With this type, the atheist explicitly denies the existence of any gods — making a strong claim which will deserve support at some point. Some atheists do this and others may do this with regards to certain specific gods but not with others. Thus, a person may lack belief in one god, but deny the existence of another god.

Below are links to a variety of references pages to help understand how atheism is defined and why atheists define it the way they do.

Now, with all that in mind, I suppose the question is what is the difference between an atheist and an agnostic? [http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/definition.htm]

I’m thinking:

atheist = I don’t believe there is a god or gods [i.e. there is no God.]

agnostic = I don’t know if there is a god or gods [i.e. is there a God?]

My point is that, though many atheists believe they are atheists (which is fine, believe you are whatever you think you are), they are in fact agnostics.

So, what makes someone an agnostic and not an atheist?

Thanks,


Fred Lybrand

My Favorite Conversation (ever) with an Atheist

Occasionally I get to bump into an atheist—even in Texas!

Here’s how I remember the conversation, though it probably wasn’t this smooth 🙂

Me: So, where are you on your own spiritual journey

Atheist: Oh, well I’m an atheist.

Me.  Cool!  I’ve hardly ever met a real atheist.

Atheist:  Well, congratulations, I guess.

Me:  So, can I ask you a question?

Atheist:  Sure.

Me:  So how do you absolutely positively know that there is no God.

Atheist:  Well, I don’t absolutely positively know that there is no God.

Me: Oh (very disappointed and crest-fallen), then you’re just an agnostic.  Well, which kind of agnostic are you, open or closed?

Former Atheist: I don’t know what you mean.

Me:  Well, an atheist knows there is no God.  An agnostic doesn’t know whether there is a God or not.  The closed agnostic says that if there is a God we can’t know because He is so beyond us we couldn’t grasp His existence anyway.  In this sense the agnostic is closed because the system is closed.  An open agnostic says that he just doesn’t know if there is a God or not.  The open agnostic doesn’t insist that God’s existence is unknowable, but rather that it is unknown to him

Former Atheist: Well, I’ve got to catch my plane.

Me: OK, have a nice day.

Well, it didn’t happen quite this way…I for sure didn’t look so ‘clever’ and he didn’t look so anxious to leave; but don’t you get the point?  Their is an innate arrogance in most atheism which really amounts to FAITH.  The atheist BELIEVES that God doesn’t exist…perhaps based on evidence, but really taken more as a matter of faith.  We too can offer our evidence, but it really comes down to a matter of faith.

Perhaps, all of this explains why I think open-agnostics are pretty cool—hey, they are honest.  What a refreshing thing to encounter; a person who doesn’t know and admits it!  I think we should celebrate these folks and invite them to consider why God’s existence makes sense to believe…but plese remember, it is ALWAYS an INVITATION.  We aren’t going to talk people into believing in God, but we can sure invite them.

I’ve always thought of golf as a great metaphor for ‘evangelism’ as such.  Basically, when you play golf, you play the ball where it lies.  Sometimes you use an iron and sometimes a putter.   And, yet, you are always simply trying to move the ball closer to the hole.

Isn’t that a better way to go?  Helping an atheist move to an agnostic is a BIG move!  Of course, I’m not really ‘moving’ anyone…just inviting them to consider things in a fresh way.

We all can do that as opportunity arises.  True?

God bless,

Fred Lybrand